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  1. #1
    Word Master acktosh's Avatar
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    Default Cosplay, events, & COSPLAY EVENTS.

    this has been sort of, a lingering question in my head for a while. with the last event that took place over the weekend i felt i need to seek opinions:

    what makes a TRUE cosplay event? ;]

  2. #2
    Aspiring Mangaka China's Avatar
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    I guess, what makes a Cosplay event is pretty much all the other gatherings(like Cosfest, EoY), outings, and photoshoots that we been having all the while.

    What makes not a Cosplay event would proberly be the last weekend one, (Thats proberly counted as a fashion show for publicity stunt by the shopping mall and its partners),
    the condem man one, thats a get "cosplayers to add color" event, and the WCG one, thats mascoting...

    speaking of which, wei, Koga, machiam SCC like got fooled again lei, by any chance the event organiser for the Condem man didn't say anything about the Safe Sex campaign.

    Side tracking, mascoting is a good thing, a win win for both cosplay advertising and the business hiring the cosplayers. But for crying out loud don't spoil the market please PLEASE!
    The MINIMUM rate for mascoting in SINGAPORE is $30 an hour for normal costumes like Sakura from CCS, and $50 an hour for mascots like the Panda, Kon, and the Gundams.
    Since this is Singapore, we can't expect every business to dish out as much as overseas which are double the rates, but its not the $8 under table under table deals. Please don't go around like the WCG lady and spoil the market, thinking "what do the cosplayers know, they are just kids, lets exploit them".
    Last edited by China; May 10th, 06 at 07:23 AM.

  3. #3
    NankH Scanlatic Spectre Haldir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by China
    The MINIMUM rate for mascoting in SINGAPORE is $30 an hour for normal costumes like Sakura from CCS, and $50 an hour for mascots like the Panda, Kon, and the Gundams.
    Wah? So ex. ah? Who set one?

    The last time I work with such professional company who handle Roadshows etc for others, Regular Costumed Talents in the end get paid $15/h which, comparing to another I took up with a friend recently seems like the standard price in Singapore. The Company get paid slightly more of course cause they must still earn profit (Eg: If someone get paid $5/h, that means the agency handling his/her employment get paid $6-8/h)


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  4. #4
    Word Master acktosh's Avatar
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    china.... don't sidetrack... hahaha....

    got fooled? cosplay for a cause never involved SCC... hahaha...

    as for mascoting, that's another story altogether. for another time.

    too many events are using cosplay for publicity; so far for these events cosplay is treated as a highlight among other programs. my concern is how we can have good, proper cosplay events, cosfest and EOY aside. ;]


  5. #5
    Kawaii Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by China
    I guess, what makes a Cosplay event is pretty much all the other gatherings(like Cosfest, EoY), outings, and photoshoots that we been having all the while.

    What makes not a Cosplay event would proberly be the last weekend one, (Thats proberly counted as a fashion show for publicity stunt by the shopping mall and its partners),
    the condem man one, thats a get "cosplayers to add color" event, and the WCG one, thats mascoting...

    speaking of which, wei, Koga, machiam SCC like got fooled again lei, by any chance the event organiser for the Condem man didn't say anything about the Safe Sex campaign.

    Side tracking, mascoting is a good thing, a win win for both cosplay advertising and the business hiring the cosplayers. But for crying out loud don't spoil the market please PLEASE!
    The MINIMUM rate for mascoting in SINGAPORE is $30 an hour for normal costumes like Sakura from CCS, and $50 an hour for mascots like the Panda, Kon, and the Gundams.
    Since this is Singapore, we can't expect every business to dish out as much as overseas which are double the rates, but its not the $8 under table under table deals. Please don't go around like the WCG lady and spoil the market, thinking "what do the cosplayers know, they are just kids, lets exploit them".
    Did you really go down to the event last weekend?
    I did attend, it was not a publicity for the shopping mall, it was a anime costume exhibition, isn't it?

    And I do agree with what Haldir said, who set that rate?

    If this minimum rate, will companies even wanna hire ppl for mascotting? I think we should look in the point of view of business as well.


  6. #6
    Katana Tongue KeoKepa's Avatar
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    rgd to china's post.

    i believe i've said something sarcastic about "cosplay for a cause" and that it involved "promoting safe sex".

    and no one is fooled. anyone who went, obviously went with knowledge of what the event is about because the person who gave us the information here, distinctively mentioned that tiny little part in.

    anyone who isn't happy about how that event turned out.
    blame yourself for being there.

    and about payment? you want to get paid that kind of $$$ while being in a costume? join an event company. they'll give you that rate. you free lance, get ripped off at every corner. again. personnal choice. who's to blame? not me.

    and to answer aerospace85's question.

    companies who are serious about marketing their business would employ an event coordinating company to get them the mascots/models and they would pay them a lump sum to do so. for each marketing project a company has, they would have a budget to do so. that is the money which would be paid to the event company who would in turn pay the mascots and models.

    and rates can be ANYTHING between $15/hr to $250/day.

    how i know this? i worked in an event company and i do freelance for another company.

    usually, no decent company would pay freelancers to don a costume and parade themselves. because there isn't any gurantee of quality of service.

    but in cases of tight budget, i've seen some companies give stupid ideas to me like "hey why don't we get those cosplayers down and get some crowds around our promotion area, that would attract crowds. they do it for free right?" they either assume that or they pay a club/middleman to get people to go down in costumes.

    basically. i wouldn't bother with any event that isn't our usual. usual events like streetfest, cosfest, eoy, matsuri and private photo shoots.

    i do try to warn people but no one listens to me
    but i get to laugh at the stupidity so i'm not complaining.

    and back to topic.

    what makes a great cosplay event?
    lets do the "event" part first.

    first of all. all the "events" we had arn't even events. more like one big GIANT gathering of people with the same interest. programs being held at those "events" arn't even half way anywhere.

    when you have an event, you got to have a list of programs being lined up that goes with the theme. so far. i an't see no great programs yet.

    so far, for me it was always paying 10 dollars to get into a place just to interact with people. thats just about it.

    i've given more then anyone's fair share of how to improve an event and make it entertaining, but so far, nothing has ever been done. only mouth talk.

    and what makes a True Cosplay Event?
    that "cosplay" part has already given you a theme.
    anything and anything to do with cosplay, which links to ACG(anime, comics, games) and J-Culture(japanese culture).

    if the event organiser plays around those themes.
    it'll never go wrong. BUT how he does it would affect how good the event would be. i'm sure you guys rather see some kick-ass Jrock band performaing on stage then a para-para done by your own friends right? it know it's nice and all to support your friends but please. if a performance isn't interesting, it isn't interesting.

    Basically if an event got to anything to do with J-culture, it CAN be a cosplay event. doesn't mean it would be.

    just use a little bit of logic.

    Just for example,
    if it's a Jrock event, and you turn up in an ACG related costume.
    you are one dumb muther****er.

    and if it's a TRADITIONAL japanese culture event like matsuri, and you turn up in non-traditional fashion sense like goth and to some sense GL(arguable on the GL part). you're pretty dumb too. (fusion style are fine, like goth/traditional, i've seen really nice fusion stuff. but really. goth? at matsuri??? thats plain bullshit. not to mention disrespect to the culture you are suppose to be interested in.)

    and in actual fact, which MOST of you are doing is you are creating "cosplay events" out of events that has NOTHING to do with cosplay. Obvious marketing methods by business thinking that they could use some FREE attraction by sending an invite to all "cosplayers" to come to their event in costume.You guy went, realise on the spot what some of us have been telling you is true which you dismiss to the back of your head because you wanted some attention, then come back online and BITCH about the event.

    ironic isn't it.

    and i doubt anyone would read my shitass long post about this topic because i've been repeating myself over and over and over about this for about 3 years whenever i get the chance to.
    Last edited by KeoKepa; May 10th, 06 at 02:12 PM.
    I love it when i can get emotional responses from you all without doing much. Too easy

    Use the Ignore List, it's the best function of this forum,everything else is just fluff.

  7. #7
    Aspiring Mangaka China's Avatar
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    Koga--> Oh yeah, haha, SCC was not involved, wrong event. Sorry sorry my bad.

    About the price, its always been this price....
    As for who set the price.....you aren't really asking me WHO set the price right? These are market prices, the best you can say is the Government and citizens approved or went along with the prices.
    Just like you can't pin point who set packet drinks as 40 cents and canned ones 70 cents. The closest most of us can trace is, the government approved the price and the people went with it.

    Haldir -->
    Like KeoKepa said, Freelance and occupation rates man. The professional companies that handles road shows..... like Chingay and the July roadshows at Geylang there right? Those companies have that many costumed talents to pay, and that many pay to get from the event organisers, they can't pay that much to freelancers cause they can't get that much from the organisers and expect them to still hire that many.
    About the $15, its low. its really low. Working as a freelancer every now and then, get some cash, doing something thats not that boring, thats proberly fine and good, but by any chance you not planning to be a freelancer, $15 is not the rate for you. Keep that in mind.

    aerospace85-->
    Yeah I been to the costume show. I seen the raimurio senkitan, and the Naruto, and the promotions, and the the big "40 years".
    Ok, so there isn't a shopping mall in this one,
    but I'll say this again, "fashion show" "publicity stunt" and "Exploit of cosplayers"(specifically, "Exploit of a trend growing in the population").
    Lucky for us we got actual cosplayer there, unlucky for us the public were looking at the other girls cause of their tighter asses!

    And, about your viewing the mascot in business point of view. Yours is view from the point of the client who is hiring, lets look from the point of the mascot services; Going for the usual, its transport, food, and cleaning.
    Now, the client business knows all these expenses,
    so what do you think is the mindset of the client, if they still want you to do service for them, but gives a rasacks about your pay, and throws a 50% cut pay in your face, and says "opps sorry, thats all we are giving you, your choice."


  8. #8
    Word Master acktosh's Avatar
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    you know.... i really tried to put off coming over to read the possible replies i'll get from this thread... just in case it just blows up becoming something i can't control. ;]

    then again i know keokepa can be constructive. and mild when he wants to. thanks for that. ;]

    please keep it coming y'all.


  9. #9
    Katana Tongue KeoKepa's Avatar
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    mild?

    i must be getting rusty.
    I love it when i can get emotional responses from you all without doing much. Too easy

    Use the Ignore List, it's the best function of this forum,everything else is just fluff.

  10. #10
    Kawaii Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by China
    aerospace85-->
    Yeah I been to the costume show. I seen the raimurio senkitan, and the Naruto, and the promotions, and the the big "40 years".
    Ok, so there isn't a shopping mall in this one,
    but I'll say this again, "fashion show" "publicity stunt" and "Exploit of cosplayers"(specifically, "Exploit of a trend growing in the population").
    Lucky for us we got actual cosplayer there, unlucky for us the public were looking at the other girls cause of their tighter asses!

    And, about your viewing the mascot in business point of view. Yours is view from the point of the client who is hiring, lets look from the point of the mascot services; Going for the usual, its transport, food, and cleaning.
    Now, the client business knows all these expenses,
    so what do you think is the mindset of the client, if they still want you to do service for them, but gives a rasacks about your pay, and throws a 50% cut pay in your face, and says "opps sorry, thats all we are giving you, your choice."
    But that is the truth isn't it. And I agree on keokepa for the first time. Companies will always give the quotations beforehand. If you don't like what they pay you, you can always reject the offer. Simple as that.


  11. #11
    Aspiring Mangaka China's Avatar
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    Dude, "Companies will always give the quotations beforehand", what inthe world?
    your "Companies" is refering to the companies hiring the mascot service right? If you are talking about companies hiring macots, its not normal for them to give you quotations, you as the mascot service company give the quotation.
    Companies that are big enough to tell you before hand that they are going to only pay you this much, usually pay much. Like Bugis,and Takashimaya.
    Companies that are not that big enough but still tell you first that they will only pay this much, are playing bets, to see if you are a fool enough to think that they are not clients to reject, and you quai quai take it.
    Which mascot service do you work for anyway?
    RAHH! Fine, do it your way for your own business. Just keep in mind you can also run it this way if by any chance touch wood your way is not working for your company.


  12. #12
    Katana Tongue KeoKepa's Avatar
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    okie wait let me explain it a little clearer.

    big companies who hold events = Sony, Parco(bugis), LG, Creative, etc
    events companies who ORGANISE events = ABC entertaiment, xyz event Co, etc

    big companies come out with budget, say 90k to promote new product.

    big company hire event company to do the job.

    therefore the budget(90k) is inclusive of everything(stage, lights, food, gifts, performers, etc)

    the event co will then work around that budget, come up with a plan, show it to big company for varification(to see if they like it), big company will ask for stupid things like super stars, more sexy performers, etc.

    event co will keep working around the budget to come up with a formula which pays for everything with that 90k.

    if entertainment budget is a reasonable amt of 10k or so, everyone gets paid a happy sum of more then $30 per hour.

    if entertaiment budget is not reasonable amt, say 5k or so, everyone gets paid an okie sum of $15 per hour or less.

    frankly. it all depends on what the big company wants. the event company just try to balance everything out so everyone is happy or not too upset.

    and from what my company does is we have a couple of list of people to call to do the modeling and mascotting.

    one list is for the high end (companies with big money to spend and they don't care what the expense is. those ppl we call usually get paid min $150 for 4 to 6 hr jobs) and we have the low budget list (less professional people who get paid from the range of $7 to $15 per hour. and they work 7 to 10 hours.)

    we call those people up, tell them how much they are paid, if they don't want to take up the job, we call another person.

    for one. there will usually only be one event company to one event held by one big company. so if you pass up the offer to work, you wouldn't get it. and i usually black list those people(in the low budget list) when they reject the job offer once too many times or cause me problems.

    Trust me, the word get spreads around so other event companies will maybe use you once or twice then drop you because of ur reputation.

    you can have ur pride all you want but thats all they can pay you due to budget constrain. if you dun want to takeup the offer, we'll just find someone else to do the job. there will ALWAYS be someone more then willing to get ur job.

    usually, if you're a regular, you get "promoted" because you already know what to do and require very little supervision and can also teach newbies the ropes. then you get paid easily twice as much as the rest.

    that $30/$50 "market rate" is just bullshit from people who have been promoted to regulars.

    actual market rate? $10 to $15 per hour. $20 if you are lucky.

    sounds evil?
    damn right. but it's how the entertaiment business works in the event world.
    mascots, part-timers(freelancers) and runners are ALWAYS at the bottom of the food chain.

    either you stay in the circle long enough to gain experience and knowledge and proof ur worth, you either get dropped or remain at the bottom.

    how the food chain goes is big company(usually PR or marketing department) -> event company ->event coordinator(where all the planning is done) -> assistant -> regulars(the force that drives an event) -> newbies(the one that screws up or slacks off)

    is the picture of how this money food chain clearer now?
    I love it when i can get emotional responses from you all without doing much. Too easy

    Use the Ignore List, it's the best function of this forum,everything else is just fluff.

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    Kawaii Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by China
    Dude, "Companies will always give the quotations beforehand", what inthe world?
    your "Companies" is refering to the companies hiring the mascot service right? If you are talking about companies hiring macots, its not normal for them to give you quotations, you as the mascot service company give the quotation.
    Companies that are big enough to tell you before hand that they are going to only pay you this much, usually pay much. Like Bugis,and Takashimaya.
    Companies that are not that big enough but still tell you first that they will only pay this much, are playing bets, to see if you are a fool enough to think that they are not clients to reject, and you quai quai take it.
    Which mascot service do you work for anyway?
    RAHH! Fine, do it your way for your own business. Just keep in mind you can also run it this way if by any chance touch wood your way is not working for your company.
    Since KeoKepa had done the explaination, I don't think there's anything I wanna add further.
    You'd better check on your facts before bombing your comments.

    That's all I wanna tell you.


  14. #14
    Photographer vince123123's Avatar
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    I think some clarification of terms needs to be in order lest people read what they read and believe it without a contrasting input.

    It is a misconception to equate freelancing with the level of quality or proficiency of the individual.

    A freelancer just means that he is not contracted to or employed by or bound with any company - whether a modelling agency, an events company, an advertising firm, or otherwise. The opposite of a freelancer is when someone is contracted exclusively to a company. Of course, there are also those who are under non-exclusive contracts, and they are both freelancers and contracted at the same time.

    Being contracted or represented doesn't automatically or per se "level you up" to a higher level of quality of proficiency (whether or not your company promotes you as such falsely is not relevant).

    I have used many freelancers who have a much higher level of quality or proficiency than those being contracted or represented - again reinforcing the idea that it is a misconception that freelancers have low quality or proficiency.

    Its not unusual to have common folks labour under these misconceptions, however, it is surprising when they come from those purporting to be in the industry.

    Hope this helps.


  15. #15
    Verbal Bakemono iamacow's Avatar
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    China => LOL
    $30 an hour for normal costumes like Sakura from CCS, and $50 an hour for mascots like the Panda, Kon, and the Gundams?
    Laughable comment. This is not US, or Japan.

    If i'm hiring via an mascot agency/event management coy, yes I'll expect to pay $50 for each character, per hour. The one being hired shouldn't expect more than $10-$20 per hour. If I'm not wrong there's a local agency which promises free food drinks etc rather than pay.

    It's only when someone is hired directly, then yeah you have a chance of getting more than $10 - $15 / hour.
    Or when someone decides that $$ is not very important as compared to the cause, then you can expect more $$.

    Bugis + Takashimaya are not companies, neither are they big. Neither will they hire you directly. They always go through an event company.

    ----
    OT though:

    For your waking up.. if you "work as a freelancer" every now and then you're not a freelancer. It's more like working for fun.

    Freelancers are not necessarily those that command low pay. As a freelancer doing flash, a while back when I pia for jobs, I could hit $2k - $3k a month for working only maybe 10 days. When I was attached to a company for internship, for a lousy monthly pay of $1.2k I was expected to churn out work every month that'd make me $5k+ easily.

    Freelancers who's known in the field can command high pay. It's those who work for fun that don't mind the low pay portion, or who gets cut.. For example, Japanese racequeens freelancers get flown to Singapore, put into hotel, and command $250 per hour at local car shows. Local agency models are struggling to get $50 per hour.
    ----


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