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  1. #1
    Katana Tongue Greenzaku's Avatar
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    Default Funeral costs and scams

    WALL OF TEXT WARNING (Part 1)

    First off...my grandmother collapsed and passed away at home in April this year after a long struggle with many health issues. I miss her and remember her fondly, but her death itself was not a big distress...everyone including herself knew it was going to happen. She was also a faithful Christian who said God would always take care of her, and that therefore she was not afraid of death. Her maid called on Friday morning saying that she had collapsed, but though I rushed there quickly and began CPR and mouth-to-mouth even before the SCDF arrived, she was pronounced dead.

    Since the death was not suspicious, there was no need for the Coroner to examine the body. We got a death certificate within an hour from the police and my distressed mother began funeral arrangements. The SCDF paramedics placed her in her bed and closed her eyes and mouth before leaving.

    This is where things started going wrong. During the whole situation, my mother and grandfather were upset and panicked, and I think that Singapore Casket took advantage of them to overcharge. Outside the flat, I was answering a policeman's questions on my grandma's health conditions, and when I came back, my mother had already rung Singapore Casket.

    My family is very small, and my uncle (my mother's only sibling) was overseas. He could not rush to Singapore in the next two days; leaving myself and my mother as the only relatives around to handle the funeral. Other relatives are also elderly and live in Malaysia. We called my grandaunt and her neighbour and got their help to telephone relatives, neighbours, friends and church contacts to notify them.

    Funeral companies make you PAY and PAY for EVERYTHING, to take advantage of family's grief and also the greedier need to impress relatives. There are virtually NO REGULATIONS ON FUNERAL BUSINESSES in Singapore, only the basic health and safety ones. I loved my grandmother deeply, but I am very angry that the attitude is that 'if you don't pay a lot of $$$ when your relative dies, it shows you don't love them as much.' My belief is that so long as you don't do anything that obviously dishonours the dead person, then a funeral should be more catered to ease the grief of people still alive...

    I will break down what happens in steps, since people are not usually very familiar with funeral arrangements.

    1. After the funeral company is called, they arrive and take the body for storage. Not much happened here. But I'm a little annoyed that they tried to remove my grandmother's jade ring to pass to my mother and ended up cutting her finger...
    Still, an accident is an accident....I ignored this.

    2. You go to the funeral parlour to arrange the funeral. My mother booked everything in my name because I was the only one carrying an IC at the time.

    3. You choose what room, what coffin, how many days, what sort of food, what flower arrangement etc...Choosing the room was straightforward, we knew my grandma's relatives would travel during the weekend so the room was fairly small since they would not stay around for a long time. By Monday they would mostly return to Malaysia, so we booked for three days including Friday.

    Cost of room was almost eight hundred dollars for the first night, and almost $500 for each night afterward! I asked what were provided with the rooms. Aircon, a fridge, a stand to put the coffin, a wall-hanging themed with the deceased's religion, a poster with her photo to say who she was, a cleaner who would sweep it once a day. The only really special thing that it had was a ventilation system to suck away candle smoke and insense burnings.

    If you think about it, you can use a room in someone's house for a lot cheaper....>_> We also obviously chose a Christian funeral....btw do you know that setting up a Buddhist or Taoist funeral in a void deck or field is at least THREE TIMES as expensive?

    The staff talk to you like they are selling a handphone plan...it was usually me who negotiated as politely as possible for a reasonable price; but my mother insisted on making the final choices. I knew she was stressed and instead of going to the trouble of arranging a home funeral, she wanted the Pearl Room. Okay. Fine.

    4. Choose the coffin.
    Selling coffin like selling cars....the staff will bring you to a back room and ALWAYS show the most expensive coffin first and then go all the way down to the 'cardboard coffin'. the most expensive ones easily cost SEVERAL thousands of dollars, the cheapest one around $350. The most expensive ones are made of solid hardwood (think of the trees!) with real brass handles (which is going into a cremator) are lined with real satin (again, going to be cremated) and are HUGE (my grandmother is the same small size as me).

    The salesperson will go on and on about how the coffin is 'your most precious, last gift to your deceased'. From what I know about my grandmother, she wouldn't give a damn as long as Christian rites were followed; and like i said before, i see a funeral as a time to care for the living. My preference was for the second cheapest model which was a bit small, but had a glass window for people to see my grandmother's face, and was made of recycled wood which was painted over and polished...about another $850. the handles were plastic but painted metallic.

    At least I talked my mother out of spending another $1500 on the coffin she was looking at. If you could buy a coffin at IKEA, it would probably only cost as much as the cardboard one....I don't believe a big cardboard box should cost $350, a recycled wood box $850 and a new wood box $XXXX...especially since its going to be cremated!

    Even when I picked the $850 coffin, the saleswoman still kept going..."are you sure", "Its your LAST GIFT" etc...I only shut her up when a brilliant idea popped in my head. I asked her:

    "What colour is the floor of the Room?"

    "Erm..."

    "I don't want the coffin to be the same colour as the floor. A lot of the old relatives have poor eyesight and I don't want them to bump into the coffin..."

    "Let me check for you..."

    As I suspected, the cheaper coffins were actually LEAST similar in colour to the floor, and that satisfied my mother too.
    Last edited by Greenzaku; Dec 2nd, 08 at 07:21 PM.
    "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
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  2. #2
    Katana Tongue Greenzaku's Avatar
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    Part 2 (reserved)

    My mother was upset, crying and highly strung, but she was the one PAYING so I usually kept stepping in to stop her from spending too much. Our family is not rich, but in this state, she could have spent a lot more than we could afford. Use of the room also meant that we were locked into a contract that meant we were not allowed to bring in large amounts of outside food, use an outside florist, etc.

    5. Coffin accessories

    Did we want a big brass cross put on the coffin? How about special clothes to dress the body? A satin shroud, since our 'cheap' coffin didn't have a nice lining? To the first, we felt it was already bloody obvious my grandmother was Christian, since there was a giant wall-hanging, the church was holding a service etc. To the second, I suggested to the maid to prepare a set of my grandma's nice clothes We agreed to the last.

    A few metres of cloth should not cost $90, but my mother insisted and I thought she was too upset for me to leave alone and rush to Bugis.

    6. Embalming

    Did we want her embalmed? This might seem like an obvious yes, but think again. All coffins in Singapore, even the cheapest, comply with health regulations that prevent unpleasant smells and liquids from coming out of them. If the body is kept in a cold, dry environment (like an aircon room), if the body cannot be seen, or the funeral is only a few days at most, its not actually needed by law. Even Singapore Casket *asked* if we wanted Grandma emblamed, and did not assumed it. But since everyone assumes its needed, my mother nodded a vigorous 'yes'.

    Another two hundred dollars.

    Emblaming uses very toxic chemicals pumped into the body in order to give a rosy, lifelike look. When put in a crematorium, the fumes cause a lot of air pollution; if buried, the chemicals pollute the soil. Embalmers will also use makeup and sometimes liquid injections to make a body look good...sometimes the results are unexpected. They will do the makeup and hair first and then ask you to inspect.

    Grandma's hair was now combed standing almost straight up! Like many old people, she had hair loss, but liked to keep a wavy style that was quite close to her scalp. This was present at the moment she died. Now she had a white 'fro. I touched her hair and found they had even used hairspray to make it stand...why, I absolutely dunno. Luckily the embalmer quickly fixed it when I *politely* asked him to, while my mother sobbed and cringed away from the body.

    7. Flowers.

    For three times the cost of an outside florist (since the forms now prohibited it) you need to pay separately for flowers to put *on* the coffin, the sides of the coffin, or around the photograph attached to the coffin. This is not the same as flowers given by guests. We had roses around the photo frame, and when they arrived they dripped so much water that I had to rush and get a plate so there wouldn't be a slippery puddle on the floor.

    8. Cremation or burial after the funeral?

    Obviously, we picked cremation. This still costs money, but then crematoriums are not cheap to run, and actually I felt this was the best priced item. For a fairly low price (I don't remember now, but definitely less than a few hundred), we had a cremation viewing, a rented chapel for a service, and a bus to bring mourners to Mandai.

    9. Coffin transport

    Did we want a Toyota hearse? A Volvo hearse? Or a Mercedes hearse? Yes, they are different priced! How about flowers to decorate the vehicle...?>< (Because obviously more are needed, flowers for vehicles cost more than flowers for coffins)

    No seriously, a Toyota looks *fine*. Thank you very much.
    By the way...there IS NO LAW IN SINGAPORE that says you cannot use your own van or lorry either.
    We didn't have one, and neither did the aged, overseas relatives. The church had one we could use, but it was offered a bit too late ><

    10. Snacks

    Since we were locked into a contract, this meant $5 bags of those 'thumbs up' brand of peanuts, and other things like overpriced melon seeds, sweets and packet drinks. We were able to save by placing a fixed amount of each food at tables and asking what drink a guest wanted as soon as they arrived and we passed it to them; so people could not grab a huge amount and leave with it.

    Predictably, the company also has a menu of expensive alcoholic drinks, and will charge 'service fees' if you bring in your own.

    11. Catering

    We had an evening service on Saturday, so dinner had to be catered for the guests. Again, the contract prevents us from getting our own caterer...we have to use the marked up price from the company (which surely gets a commission from this). The food was so-so in the end and cost about 50% more than outside. It also arrived with no one to help light the burners under the trays (and no lighters)...and no forks...which AFTER the dinner, we found had been put on a hidden shelf under the trays and forgotten when they took the spoons and knives out.

    Watching twenty old folks fumble with knives in place of forks while they glare at you is NOT pleasant.

    12. Others

    There was a fee to hire microphones and speakers for the pastor to conduct the service. Luckily I didn't have to know what it was because the church brought its own equipment. I used to go to Grandma's church but left due to disagreements with the doctrine; but it doesn't stop us from respecting her beliefs and bringing in her church to run the service. The church does this for free as a form of goodwill to all members, but we were also told (suspiciously, by FUNERAL PARLOUR STAFF) that it was polite to 'make a donation, most people give about $500'. My uncle had by then arrived from overseas and handed over $500. Considering that he isn't Christian, and already contributed to the funeral expenses, this was a very selfless gesture.

    Since we were told this by the funeral company, rather than a guest or church member, don't you just bet that the funeral company receives a share of the $500 for *letting* a religious group collect money for running a service on their premises?
    Last edited by Greenzaku; Dec 2nd, 08 at 07:45 PM.
    "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
    "On Sgcafe, assume everyone is bisexual unless otherwise stated." - lockie

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  3. #3
    hates you. You're welcome Miavi's Avatar
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    Why spend so much upon a person's death when most people don't even care about that person when (s)he's alive?

    I don't get these grand funerals, really.

    Making it so extravagant and grand, with the costliest decorations and whatnots, to prove their piety, when that person was alive, everybody treated him/her like a burden and threw him/her around nursing homes.

    Plus, doesn't her church help to hold funeral services?

  4. #4
    죽을래?? Phailure's Avatar
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    .

    Though,I believe that people who are close to you should be given a glamorous wave of goodbye(coffins,planning,etc)(TOUCHWOOD)


  5. #5
    Resident Troll sabif's Avatar
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    Wait, don't churches here do funeral services?


  6. #6
    Astro Boy Zerogundamw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phailure View Post
    .

    Though,I believe that people who are close to you should be given a glamorous wave of goodbye(coffins,planning,etc)(TOUCHWOOD)
    only if it's within ur ability.
    No point spending alot on the funeral if u cant afford it. What matters is whether or not u really cared about that person. Grand funeral is not neccessary. but if it's within ur means, no objection. else pushing it is not helping anyone, the dead and the livings alike.

    Grand Funeral != filial
    In fact, it's made for the living to see, not dead. Unless what u want is to show off ur wealth or not to lose face to ur relative. Fine go ahead. Though you had probably mistaken the primary purpose of honoring the dead to another thing.

    The fact the sales person is pushing to sell the expensive stuff is becos it's Still boils down as a business. They are selling services to you. so they certainly want to profit as much as possible. At least they didnt HARDSELL. That would be very insensitive and unethical of them to do so.


  7. #7
    Katana Tongue Greenzaku's Avatar
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    Miavi and sabif: That's it...a church can *hold* a funeral service and can definitely help organise smaller things like contacting relatives and bringing flowers etc....but they can't provide coffins, cremations, hearses, and not many churches in Singapore have the space and rooms for a body to lie for days.

    Phailure: If people want a grand goodbye, that's perfectly fine if that is how the living feel they want to honour the dead. I'm not complaining about that, but at how funeral companies TOTALLY OVERCHARGE.

    Zerogundamw: Yes, it was hardsell. I have added more to my previous post on this.

    ...more coming up...
    "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
    "On Sgcafe, assume everyone is bisexual unless otherwise stated." - lockie

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  8. #8
    Katana Tongue Greenzaku's Avatar
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    Part 3.

    13. Memorials

    Once her ashes were collected, how did we want them memorialised? A hole in the wall of a columbarium cost a few hundred dollars, not counting the cost of an urn. It would also cost hundreds of dollars to attach the deceased picture, and if we wanted the engraved name to be lined with gold paint, it would be another $50 more...

    Urns also cost $$$. A simple marble urn is still more than a hundred dollars. The porcelain or soapstone urns cost a lot more...the most expensive urns are carved out of green soapstone resembling jade and have gold sutras carved into the sides...they can cost even more than the rest of funeral itself O_O

    Places in columbariums are allocated randomly, and if we didn't specify and paid the base cost for a single niche, it would likely be HIGH off the ground, far away from the entrance, and difficult to reach. To pick your niche...its another few hundred dollars.

    Niches can be made for couples or singles. A couple's niche costs less than a two singles; but in the end, you will also need to pay another several hundred dollars to *unseal* the niche when the second person dies (my grandfather), pay for a second urn, and pay for a second name engraving.

    After some calculation we settled on a random location couple's niche. My mother is the LAST relative left in singapore able to physically travel up the long flight of steps to the columbarium, much less the aged ones overseas. I am now in Australia. So it didn't matter that the niche had to be near the ground for many people to see.

    14. Alternatives

    By the way....I only learnt later you *don't* actually need an urn or memorial! Scattering of ashes at sea, or even keeping the urn at home, is common and perfectly legal! A boat can be hired for several passengers for less than $200, including a customary $50 tip for the boatman (according to Singapore casket, who will do ALL the organising for you...)

    But they didn't even tell my mother that these choices were available...they just went into: What memorialisation do you want.....? I only remembered on Saturday that sea burials were available because I heard of another relative who was scattered at sea, THEN asked Singapore Casket, and THEN was finally and reluctantly shown the possibility.

    It wasn't too late for my mother to change her decision...but...Singapore Casket had already anounced to mourners that the ashes would be put in the columbarium! My mother wasn't sure how to change this announcement without making herself look cheap, so the memorial was made by Monday...

    15. The funeral itself.

    By Friday afternoon, while the embalmers were working on the body and not everyone had been contacted yet, my mother, grandfather and the maid finally took a break for their first meal of the day. By now I was extremely irritated by the funeral staff and asked my mum to let me sit in the hired room and rest, to 'spend time alone with my feelings for Grandma'. We were told she and the flowers + decorations would be brought in a couple of hours

    In reality, I took this opportunity to pack the snacks neatly in the darkness of the room, and inspect each item when it arrived. When the funeral staff first arrived with the coffin, they looked surprised to see me there. This was how I noticed the flowers were leaking a lot of water. I noticed how the company charged $50 for a very shoddy looking 'Rememberance Book' that was placed temptingly out in the open for people to use (according to a much more hidden slip of paper listing charges), and immediately hid and replaced it with a new notebook that I had in my bag by chance; which I had wanted to bring to work that day.

    When they left...I sat really still and waited for my mother to come back. Then I noticed another thing...the room had COCKROACHES! I killed a few, but then if you think of this as where a DEAD BODY is stored, and there is food left openly on tables....eww...

    16. Anyway, because my uncle and only cousin could only spend a few hours in Singapore, and I am an only child, I was the only person staying up for all-night vigils, serving all the guests, clearing uneaten food and collecting donations while my mother got all the comfort and sympathy as she was crying. While I was polite and friendly with the church group, the leaders tended to avoid speaking with me...understandable since I left them due to disagreement with the teaching. After all the drama, I finally found the time to weep, only to have a random 'uncle' who I had never known TO MY FACE, openly tell me to 'mop up fake tears because its your *mother* that loved Grandma so much that she paid SO MUCH for the funeral'...

    I lost my temper and also told him to his face that Grandma pretty much DIED in my arms while I raced to save her, and that I could BLOODY ****ING WELL CRY if I BLOODY WELL WANTED TO.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    Altogether, my grandmother's death cost us between $5000 to $6000. Through careful management I had actually shaved off at least half the cost, and donations actually slightly exceeded expenditure...

    We donated the surplus to the church.

    I started this thread to make people aware of the kinds of outrageous costs we are being charged, and that options do exist if you
    ASK and PERSIST.
    Last edited by Greenzaku; Dec 2nd, 08 at 07:06 PM.
    "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
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  9. #9
    I'm on a horse. lockie's Avatar
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    Whoever came up with the phrase "You may die but you mustn't fall sick" really needs to think again.
    http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/taup0k/lockiegunsou.png

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    Word Master -Emii-'s Avatar
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    hmm... funerals are not cheap though, i guess you want the best for your grandmother's funeral. but omg they charge you so much money...
    so even if you die, you must still pay for your own funeral after you're long gone


  11. #11
    Aspiring Mangaka Kobayashi's Avatar
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    Businesses exist to make profit.
    Harsh as it may be, survival's the rule of the game and philantrophists don't come by easily.

    It's sad that you have to go through such experiences and support your mother emotionally on top of the grief of losing a loved one.
    But that 'uncle' was too much, I'd have broken something of his for that remark if I were in your situation.


  12. #12
    Aspiring Mangaka Kobayashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockie View Post
    Whoever came up with the phrase "You may die but you mustn't fall sick" really needs to think again.
    lol
    Not really.
    Medical expenses may amount up to several tens of thousands.


  13. #13
    I'm on a horse. lockie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kobayashi View Post
    But that 'uncle' was too much, I'd have broken something of his for that remark if I were in your situation.
    "I will snap off your cock" xD
    http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/taup0k/lockiegunsou.png

  14. #14
    Katana Tongue Greenzaku's Avatar
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    LOL...I also dunno if its worth breaking his lan jiao....he looked about 70+ years old already, want to piss also got problem, break for what?
    "Those who cling to life die, and those who defy death live."
    "On Sgcafe, assume everyone is bisexual unless otherwise stated." - lockie

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  15. #15
    Katana Tongue
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    my heart goes to u. they will get bad karma.


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